Adeline Gun Dogs was created in 2022 and is planning to have its first litter later this year. My goal is to produce quality hunting dogs that double as great family companions.
Foothills Ada Reece | PP-005580 | NA 108 II
Blackhawks Grizzly (PP-005791) is a result of a breeding between I-80’s Deuces Wild and our female Paladins Allison Rox. Knowing how his mother “Alli” hunts I had a good feeling Grizzly was going to be something special and I was correct.
Grizzly has a brown medium dense coat with good furnishings. He and his mother are 65lbs and with stamina for days. During the hunting season, Grizzly spends no less than 4 days a week hunting upland, waterfowl from a boat or field blind. I would consider Grizzly to be a medium ranging field dog who loves our Iowa waters no matter how cold. He has a drive that is relentless when it comes to searching downed game but a steadiness to hold until released.
Grizzly’s demeanor is one that does not require much pressure when training for hunting or obedience and yet he retains what he learns with little to no refreshing no matter how long it's been. He has always wanted to please, responding well to verbal commands and hand signals. We have always believed in keeping our dogs in the house with us, exposing them to social interactions with other dogs as well as people. Therefore, having a good "off switch" is another trait we enjoy with both Alli and Grizzly. I’m excited to see Grizzly’s offspring and have no doubt his bloodline will continue to produce something special.
Camridge’s Duke - Offered for Stud
NAVHDA REG NUMBER PP-003899
NA 112 Prize 1, UT 164 Prize 3
OFA HIPS EXCELLENT PP-563E47M-PI
DNA PP00389 DNA-PP
Coat: Medium Dense Medium Harsh
FF Furnished - VetGen ID 45215
You can check out our Facebook page for more pictures and information.
We will be doing a repeat of our 2022 Pumpkin by Barley litter for early spring 2023.
At Harvesthills Pudelpointers, I strive to breed dogs that are of good temperament, know their job in the field and do it well. I produce dogs that are great in the home, with kids, people and other animals (no guarantee on cats – lol). I also like my dogs to know when its time to “work”, time to “play” and time to “relax”. The dog spends more time in the home as a pet than a hunting dog. Therefore, the dog must have a good temperament in the home, with kids, people, and other animals. Temperament is also required for the “working” dog – it is key to the dog working for you and with you to put game in the bag. I am very committed to the Pudelpointer and maintaining the breed standard for this beautiful breed. I am always trying to do better, do more and educate others about the breed. The breed has become very popular recently and more than ever we need to ensure the standards that make our breed so fantastic are met and maintained (if not exceeded). I make sure NAVHDA testing is completed and meets the required standard as outlined by NAPS. I breed to maintain a Coefficient of Inbreeding to 10% or less. I am not a genetics expert and therefore would not attempt line breeding - I leave that to those with greater knowledge and experience than me. I will also begin DNA testing all of my breeding females this year. I believe the information gathered with DNA testing will be vital to the ongoing health of the breed.
Breeding plans: I am currently planning to breed Ziha in March 2023.
Dogs in my kennel:
- Foothills Autumn Joce (Retired) - NA 1, UT 2, Coat Ff
- Iwan's Strumming Harper - NA 1, UT 3, Coat Ff
- Harvesthills Keziha - NA 2 (108), UT 1, Coat FF
- Breeding to maintain the furnishings – these are “ugly dogs” and should have furnishings.
- Not breeding a dog prior to being able to have certified hips, and ensuring the hips are at minimum OFA Good or Excellent or a Penn Hip Distraction Index that is at or better than the mean.
- Paying attention to the head structure of the breeding pair to minimize the issues that are starting to show up with teeth (Base Narrow, Overshot, Undershot, Butt Bite, etc.).
- Ensuring the dog has been NAVHDA Tested to the breed standard minimum.
- Any other health testing required (Brucellosis testing for instance).
I train and handle all my dogs in their NAVHDA tests. I am actively involved in my Chapter. I am a NAVHDA judge, and now with 12 years of training experience (always learning) I help and guide members of our club to get the best from their hunting dog(s). I have guided hunts with youth, veterans and new hunters. The dogs love to please and work for you to get game in the bag! I get out hunting as many days as possible while working full time. I take my vacation time in the fall so usually get 20-45 days hunting with them in all types of terrain. Watching the dogs work birds is the pinnacle for me – seeing them work together to pin a pheasant, treeing a ruffie, all backing the first dog on a covey of Sharpies, diving for ducks. Sometimes I am so in awe of them I forget to shoot – then get the stink eye!
When you get a pup from me:
- I provide a 2-year health guarantee for genetic related issues. This is void if the dog has been spayed or neutered prior to 2 years of age. I also void this if the client has been running the dog long distances prior to vet approval of the growth plates being closed.
- I provide 30 days pet insurance.
- I register all litters with NAVHDA.
- I microchip all my puppies.
- I register the litter and have the pedigrees sent directly to the owner.
- I deworm every 2 weeks from 2 weeks of age and send home an Interceptor Plus dewormer with the pups when they go home.
- They have their first vaccinations done at 8 weeks of age.
- I will have been using a Dremel on their nails weekly from 5 weeks of age and clippers prior to that.
- I dock the tails and dew claws I prefer not to remove.
- I handle the pups individually (hold, challenge, etc.) at a minimum of 10 minutes, twice daily.
- I get the pups on at least wing prior to going home.
- Introduction to water with a puppy pool in winter months and in spring summer I get them out swimming.
- I do noise introduction which includes gun fire, motorcycles, lawn mower noises etc. I do cap gun intro at a minimum, weather dependent starter pistol and shot gun (from a distance).
- The pups get socialization with children and other people and dogs daily.
- I send home a “Now you have your puppy – what next” list of things to expect, things to do, equipment to purchase and links to resources.
- I signed up with the Good Dog program, and was accepted, however because they are not in Canada, I can not registered – I do try to follow their guidelines.
- Every pup gets a “Go Home” Bath (and have had baths prior to this as well), and I make collars so each owner get a new collar with a brass name plate for their pup.
- I also give my owners Harvesthills Swag – jacket, hat, bag, tougue, t-shirt – I get different stuff all the time. All get the hat for sure!
- I am a registered breeder with Purina so my pups get a Purina swag bag as well.
- early neurological stimulation,
- scent stimulation,
- puppy enhancement program including problem solving activities.
Current Litter Info
Puppies were born on 12/30/2021
Go home date is 2/26/2022
Dam: Camridge’s Nothing’s impossible aka “Ellie”
NAVHDA PP-004813 NA 112 I and UT 161 III
Pennhip LT= 0.26 and RT = 0.41 at 36 Mo.
Sire: VC Boones Farm Junior aka “J-Bird”
NA 112 I, UT 204 I, IT 189 Pass
OFA PP-499G46M-VPI = Good
We bought our first Pudelpointer, Callie, in 2010. Thanks to that fuzzy, energetic, and always happy pup we have embraced the breed and thoroughly enjoy sharing the joys of the Pudelpointer with other families. We have been breeding Pudelpointers since 2013 and are currently located in Virginia. In our 19 years of breeding experience we have developed our line to preserve the characteristics and quality of this breed that we love so much. Our foremost goal is to provide dogs who are outstanding in the field and at home for hunters and their families. We work to pair dogs that will produce healthy, amenable, and cooperative pups that will have phenomenal performance in the field while also being calm and gentle in the house.
Stella (Ripsnorter's Double Dog Dare) just had her first litter with Marshland's Pirate Phil. We will also be breeding Evony to Ripsnorter's Slate for her final litter before retirement. Please check out our website for further details on these two litters.
Our current breeding dogs are as follows:
Juniper Creek's Evony Pine aka "Evony"
Natural Ability 112 Prize 1; Utility 134 Prize 3
PennHip: Right .42; Left .38
Furnishings DNA: FF
Sire: Ace Vom Maple Run (UT 169 Prize 3); Dam: Foothills True Believer (NA 112 Prize 1)
In Evony's first litter with Fin Renard Carbon Felix 3 of 7 pups tested in NAVHDA Natural Ability and all earned Prize 1 scores! The average score of all 9 of her pups who have been tested in Natural Ability is 105.1 with 5 Prize 1 scores, 2 Prize 2 scores, and 2 Prize 3 scores. All of Evony's pups tested in Natural Ability have Prized!
We currently have a few pups available from Evony's final litter. The sire is Ripsnorter's Slate. Puppy pickup date is May 20th.
Lone Pine's Commanding Presence aka "Cadi"
Natural Ability 110 Prize 1
PennHip: Right .25; Left .21
Furnishings DNA: FF
Sire: Cedarwoods Feisty Hector (NA 112 Prize 1; UT 204 Prize 1); Dam: Cedarwoods Zayda Volante (NA 112 Prize 1)
In Cadi's first litter with Stone Pine's Bodo 2 of 8 pups tested in NAVHDA Natural Ability, One pup earned a 112 Prize one and one pup earned a 92 Prize 2.
Cadi has only had one litter so far and her pups consistently have a very high level of drive and an excellent nose. Despite the high drive, their family's report a great temperament and willingness to please. We are looking forward to seeing them develop and will likely do a repeat breeding in the future and keep a pup for our own kennel.
Our current plan is to breed Cadi to Fin Renard Carbon Felix a Utility Prize 1 male with a wonderful temperament and outstanding performance record, when she comes into season this fall.
Ripsnorter's Double Dog Dare
Natural Ability 112 Prize 1
PennHip: Right .20; Left .21
Furnishings DNA: FF
Sire: Fin Renard Carbon Felix (NA 112 Prize 1; UT 204 Prize 1; UT 152 No Pass); Dam: Ripsnorter's Rewind (NA 112 Prize 1)
Stella is super fun to train and does everything with "flare". She is always ready to learn something new and attacks everything with enthusiasm. She has a stylish point and is doing great at learning how wild birds work. I anticipate rock solid points and consistent retrieves to hand as Stella has proven to be one of the most naturally cooperative pups I've ever worked with.
We have one brown male pup still available from Stella's first litter, with Marshlands Pirate Phil. Pups were whleped on 1/9/2023.
A Little About Our Kennel:
We like to have a lot of conversations and get to know people who are interested in our pups and we reserve the right to refuse sale to anyone we deem to be an inappropriate match for our pups. It is extremely important to us that our pups go to good, loving homes and we do our best to help our buyers select the right pup for their families and hunting activities. So when you contact us, please tell us a little about yourself, and what you're looking for in your next hunting companion and family member. Feel free to ask us detailed questions about our kennel, our dogs and the breed in general. We truly enjoy the process of helping people find the right pudelpointer puppy for their family.
In addition to the NAPS breeding requirements, we train and handle all of our dogs in their NA Tests. So far, they have all earned a Prize 1. We also train an handle our dogs in their Utility tests. This allows us to better assess their natural level of cooperation and their ability to handle pressure. It also allows us to help our buyers going through the testing process if they need guidance.
We want to make sure we are contributing to the overall health of the pudelpointer breed as well as the performance. Starting in 2022, in addition to x-ray evaluations for hip dysplasia, we will begin having our upcoming breeding females OFA certified for healthy elbows as well. Additionally, in 2021 we ordered a full Embark DNA panel on our breeding females and will continue to do so in the future. We will also have full Embark DNA panels on all puppies produced by our kennel in order to develop a solid DNA history of our line.
We take our stud selection process very seriously. When seeking a stud for our girls, we usually start looking about 6 months before we expect the breeding to happen. We spend hours looking at pedigrees, talking to their owners and talking others who have used the studs we are interested in. We also inquire about the health information on the stud and the stud's progeny. We look at past pairings to females with similar pedigrees to ours to see how their progeny have performed and if any health issues stand out. We purchased our own personal copy of the Breedmate program so that we can check the breeding coefficient of each pairing we are considering. Temperament is one of our biggest considerations when selecting a stud. We also do not select any stud with a PennHip of more than .5 or an OFA score less than Good.
We sell our pups registered as "breed restricted" which means that if you breed your pup while the restriction is in place, you will not be able to register any pups from the litter. In order to lift the restriction on a pup for breeding, we require that you adhere to and complete the requirements set forth by the North American Pudelpointer Society. We require this because we feel that it is an important step in protecting our pups as well as maintaining the quality and integrity of future litters produced. Once our buyers meet the requirements, we gladly lift the restriction free of charge.
We prefer not to ship puppies to their new homes. Over the years, we have come to feel that it is too much of a risk and we would prefer our buyers to pick their puppies up in person. In fact, the cost to fly out to pick up a pup is generally less expensive than shipping a pup these days.
Regardless of your selection of breeder we encourage everyone going through the search for a puppy to read the NAPS Puppy Buyers Guide. It is full of great advice for anyone navigating through the process of buying a pudelpointer.
What you get when you get a pup from us
We take great pride in making our pups family dogs from an early age. Our litters are whelped in our living room under constant supervision and live there for their first 4 to 6 weeks. We sleep on the couch in the same room with the mom and pups through the first 3 to 4 days so we can be alerted if anything major happens. We handle the pups a few times a day to start and we gradually increase handling them as they get older. We play with their feet, lay them on their backs, mess with their mouths and just generally get them used to all sorts of interaction with us. When they get to about 2 to 3 weeks old we start allowing trusted friends and family to begin interacting with them as well.
We deworm our pups every two weeks starting when they are two weeks old. Their first solid food is around the 4 week mark, which is generally when they go outside for the first time as well. They get their first set of vaccinations when they are as close to 8 weeks old as we can get, depending on when they are going to home with their new families.
At 5 or 6 weeks we start to introduce the wing to develop their pointing instinct and tossing small toys for them to chase and "retrieve". We make it all fun and exciting for them. Once we've played the wing game a few times we discontinue that and start getting out the real birds, using frozen birds at first to let them smell and chew a little and even carry around. Then we move on to live birds that are not able to flap around too much. We bring them into the scent cone individually to see each pups attitude toward the birds. Many will be a little stand-offish at first but there are always those brave few who charge right in, pick up the bird and pack it around. Once they show confidence with live birds that don't fly, we fly birds around them to enhance their natural prey drive and make it very exciting for them. At 7 weeks we start getting them in the water and we may even get a few swimmers before 8 weeks. We do not pressure our pups in any way at this young age but make things fun and exciting and do what we can to develop their confidence and attachment to people.
Your pup will come to you already micro-chipped and registered with NAVHDA. We also provide a complimentary 1 year membership to the North American Pudelpointer Society and one month of puppy insurance through Trupanion. Additionally, we will provide you with your pups' personal Embark DNA panel results.
We are a small, family kennel with our 3rd litter from Scout and Cash on the ground. Both of the first 2 litters by these parents earned an NA Breeders Award.
We've got 8 beautiful pups - 3 female and 5 male, all liver color.
The best way to contact us is by phone.
Sire: I-80's Deuces Wild (Cash)
NAVHDA PP-003652 NA 112 I and UT 193 I
Dam: Czechmate's June Bug Brown (Scout)
NAVHDA PP-005109 NA 112 I
Mountain Creek Gun Dog Kennel was established in 2020 on the idea to breed excellent hunting dogs as well as the great family dogs. We currently have 2 Pudelpointers that we hunt dove, ducks, quail, pheasant and chukar with. We occasionally throw in a deer track too.
We will be having our first litter this year, breeding our girl Ripsnorter’s Diva (PP-006618) to Tall Timbers Backwater Deacon (PP-004323). Pups are expected in December.
Ripsnorter’s Diva earned a 112 Prize 1 on her NAVHDA Natural Ability test and we are currently training for Utility with a test goal of Fall 2023.
Our pups will go to their new homes microchipped and with a complimentary NAVDHA registration. We will do bird introductions with our pups as well as water intro, season permitting.
We have 2 brown males available that were whelped on 12/10/22 out of North Santiam’s Iron Maiden and Stonesthrow’s November Man.
We are currently planning litters for 2023 and greatly anticipating pups out of our new German male as soon as he completes his spring UT.
Willie has a Natural Ability score of 110 Prize 1 and her PennHip scores are Right: 0.20 and Left 0.19.
Calvin has owned Pudelpointers since 2005 and has been a Pudelpointer breeder since 2007. He has tested in both the NAVDA Natural Ability and Utility tests as well as the JGHV tests, VJP and HZP.
The main goal for Calvin's breeding program is to develop a healthy, quality line of Pudelpointers that represents the best of the breed.
Calvin is an avid hunter, with experience hunting sharptails, huns, pheasant, ruffed grouse, woodcock and waterfowl as well as white tailed deer.
At Oxbow Kennel, our pups are NAVHDA registered. We pay for registration as part of their purchase price. We guarantee pups to live a normal hunting life. We try to set up our pups for success by early socialization. We also work to introduce pups to birds, gunfire and water (if weather appropriate).
NAVHDA REG NUMBER PP-005600
NA 110 Prize 1 at 7 months; UT 204 Prize 1 at 18 months
PennHIP: Left DI = 0.27; Right DI = 0.22 at 19 months
Coat: Medium Dense, Harsh
Websters definition of Ripsnorter is "One that is remarkable for strength, intensity, and/or excellence". Jeff George has been a proud breeder of Pudelpointers since 2007, and has even more experience with other breeds before this. While he used to raise specifically German Wirehaired Pointers under the Ripsnorter prefix, he branched out to the more versatile side of them and fell in love with his first Pudelpointer, Okra.
Jeff has tested many dogs in NAVHDA through the years in the Natural Ability, Utility, and Versatile Champion test, many receiving Prize I ranking scores. He has brought his love for hunting to his grandchildren as well, who have both tested dogs in NAVHDA, and his grandaughter, Hadley, is now helping to take over the legacy of Ripsnorter Kennel. We are members of and proud approved breeders of the North American Pudelpointer Society, as it is the most dignified and prestigious system for top quality Pudelpointers and their according breeders.
Ripsnorter Kennel currently has the following litters planned:
Due December 24 - Ripsnorter’s Excuse My French (NA 112, UT 198 Pz 1) X Ripsnorter’s Slate (2x UT (198 & 202) Pz 1)
Due Feb 7 - Ripsnorter’s Abra Cadabra (NA 112, UT 204 Pz 1). X Ripsnorter’s Shoot and Miss AKA Noonan (UT 204 Pz 1, IT 183)
Planned late spring - Ripsnorter’s Scuttlebutt (NA 112) X VC Foothill’s Benelli
Pudelpointer Companions Creating Lifelong Memories
We are currently planning to have a litter available in early 2023. Please contact us for availability.
Sage Creek Pudelpointer's mission is to breed and own only the finest examples of the Pudelpointer breed. We are a small family operation located about 180 miles south of Portland, Oregon. While we are small, our dogs are truly world class.
All of our dogs are treated as family and are never confined to kennel runs. Yes, they live in our home with us! We believe there is no better socialization than 24/7 contact with our dogs. Room to run on our rural property ensures the dogs have plenty of exercise and stimulation. You can expect outstanding customer service both before and after your puppy goes to your home. We are not just here to provide you with a puppy, we are here to share in your Pudelpointer journey.
Do you wish that you had a truly versatile hunting dog? We are active members of the NAVHDA testing and training association. All of our dogs have scored maximum or near maximum scores in the NAVHDA field trial hunt tests.
Our Pudelpointers come from the best diversified genetic backgrounds. Sage Creek's breeding standards exceed any and all clubs or associations breeding standards. All of our adult dogs' hips are tested, and are HD free. We will not breed nor own any dogs with what may be considered marginal hips. All of our dogs are fantastic hunting dogs as well as our children’s pets. Our dogs have the best International genetics possible. Our adult dogs are trained and tested in duck hunting/retrieving, upland bird hunting, being steady on point, shoot, flush and fall. Our adult dogs are trained and tested for tracking and can used for tracking big game. We actively hunt ducks, geese, quail, grouse, and pheasant every year with all of our dogs.
We believe that we have some of the finest hunting/companion dogs available at any price, and anywhere. We are proud of our operation, our adult dogs, and our pups. We have great facilities and well socialized pups with great pedigrees. Our pups have become accomplished companions, hunters, professionals, and much more. Pudelpointers are amazing dogs and we have some of the best. Take a look at our website or request more pictures.
Our puppies come with a one year health guarantee and are raised in a comfortable, social environment. We go above and beyond with proper nutritional and medical treatment. We have plenty of space and opportunity to exercise and run. Puppies are introduced to water and birds before leaving for their new homes.
Starting with Pudelpointer adults from the best diversified genetic backgrounds, all of our puppies have the potential to become fantastic hunting dogs as well as children’s pets.
Baylor (PP-006629) - NA 108 Prize I, UT 164 Prize III, HRC SHR
Bear (PP-007457) - NA 112 Prize I, HRC, SHR
We are not a kennel, we run our dogs in NAVHDA and HRC. Our dogs are active every day, in season and out of season. We are currently working toward Seasoned titles in HRC.
Baylor's sire is Pine Ridge's Ace of Spades, and his dam, Dreamworks Fuzzy, comes from a long line of Utility prized dogs.
Bear is from Ripsnorter Kennel, and also comes from a long line of Utility prized dogs.
Our next planned litter is May 2023.
Please contact Mark at Swan City Pudelpointers for more info
(780)518-6304
mark@swancitypudelpointers.com
Swan City Pudelpointers is expecting a litter between Pine Ridges Cree (Dam) x Camridge's Duke (Sire), due on April 16,2023.
Camridges Duke
NAVHDA REG NUMBER PP-003899
NA 112 Prize 1
UT 164 Prize 3
OFA Hips Excellent
DNA NAV- GS485940
Coat: Medium Dense Medium Harsh
FF Furnished does not carry smooth gene
2 NA Sir Breeders Award
Pine Ridges Cree
NAVHDA RED NUMBER PP-005537
NA 110 Prize 1
UPT 154 prize 3
OFA Hips Fair
DNA NAV- GS511490
Coat Medium dense medium harsh
FF furnishing, does not carry smooth gene
Offered for Stud
NAVHDA REG NUMBER PP-004323
UT 182/204
Only the second PP to achieve the UKC HUNTING RETRIEVER CHAMPION title
Ofa HIPS GOOD PP-544G33M-VPI
OFA ELBOWS NORMAL PP-EL72M33-VPI
Ff furnishings
True North Kennels is located in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and is NAVHDA registered. In addition to our Pudelpointers, we are actively engaged in raising service dogs, raising 10 puppies and whelping 30 future service dogs.
A Bit of Background:
Chuck grew up with hunting dogs his whole life. He had beagles and shorthairs and he and his family hunted quite a bit. I grew up with house dogs, German Shepherds, Irish terriers, etc. My family did not hunt. After we got married, we got a German Shorthair Pointer. Chuck hunted with her and our son. When we lost her we got another GSP. We then learned about PPs and after hunting behind one. After hunting with a PP, Chuck really like the breed. After further research we decided that this was the dog for our family and the type of hunting that Chuck participated in. As for breeding, we had whelped 5 litters of puppies for a service dog organization, and we realized that we love having the pups around. We have a great set up in our house and yard for puppies, and the knowledge and time.
The foundation of True North Kennels is Juniper Creeks Efia. Fia was whelped on September 1, 2016. She is brown with a medium dense, medium harsh coat. Her hips and eyes have been evaluated by OFA and deemed good. In August 2017, Fia tested NAVHDA’s Natural Ability test and scored 112, prize I. Fia had nine pups in our A litter were whelped in March 2019. Sired by Ripsnorter’s Gustav Olaf Bojangles (NA 112, UT189 II), the litter has been exceptional! Several of our puppies have done very well in their NA testing. One of Fia's puppies has not only done very will in hunting but also in Scent Testing and agility.
We are hoping to be able to better the breed with each breeding and we are particular with the studs that we use. We use our knowledge in breeding and raising service dogs in our program. Our puppies are raised right in our home so they are in the house from day one. They learn about family noises like vacuum cleaners, the coming and going of people, they get bopped by our cat (who rules the house!) We also do early scent training by giving them something to smell everyday. (Cinnamon, bird wing, etc.) Our pups are well socialized with different people and kids. They come with first vaccines done, as well as microchipped. We expose our pups to water and wing, walks in the woods, other dogs, lots of kids, and opportunities for independence and to gain courage. We use ENS early and loosely follow a program called Puppy Culture that breaks down the puppies week by week as to what they are capable of, working through fear periods etc.
Our theory is that the hunting should be bred into our dogs. What we aim for is solid, steady puppies that will be all business in the field but able to settle and be good companions in the home. We want the versatility of the breed to continue, but also maintain the "off switch" that PPs are supposed to have. As much as we all wish, most people can't hunt 365 days a year. Work, family, kids, parents all take up time these days. We feel it is so important not to breed the "excellent companion" part of the breed out.
We are currently contemplating a final litter with Fia this Spring.
To Approved Females
DOB: 05/2018
NAVHDA#: PP-005141
NA: 112 P1
UT: 204 P1
OFA Hips: Excellent (PP-650E36M-NOPI)
OFA Elbows: Normal (PP-EL91M36-NOPI)
Weight: 75#
Height: 26”
Coat: Medium Harsh / Medium Dense